Crip Café: Where are all the disabled politicians?

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Olivia: Kia ora and welcome to Crip Café, your fortnightly live podcast where we figure out how to be disabled together in Aotearoa. I'm Olivia.

Red: Kia ora tātou. Kia ora Olivia, I'm Red, it's nice to be back on the pod with you this afternoon.

Olivia: Welcome, welcome.

Red: Thanks, we love a last minute call up on Crip Café. I mean we're disabled people, we thrive in spontaneous responses to crises, so here we are.

Olivia: Yeah, welcome back to our audience and welcome to be on the show, Red. This season of Crip Café is proudly powered by our friends at Permobil.

Red: We're missing the Permobil fancy little mini wheelchairs today, but we'll hopefully get them back for the next episode. We really love those little mini wheelchairs, you and I as wheelchair users, notoriously looking for validation everywhere we go. Yeah, the Permobil wheelchairs really do that for us, so it's lovely. What are we doing today? What are we talking about? What's the kaupapa of the episode today?

Olivia: So in this episode we are answering the question where are all the disabled politicians? We are in an election year, things are starting to ramp up, so we thought we'd start the conversation now by figuring out where the representation is in parliament.

Red: Love. So much to share about that. We're also talking to Payton Matthews-Runga, a former youth MP, about what it's like to be disabled in parliament and why there might not be as many disabled politicians as there should be. After that we'll dive into the pros and cons how this election might impact our community. We've got a lot to get through today.

Olivia: Yeah, well if you've got any questions, audience members we'd love to hear how are you feeling about the upcoming election, and do you know of any disabled politicians, whether they're local or international, that you admire, we'd love to hear.

Red: Before we dig into some pretty hearty kōrero today, how are you doing? What's going on?  I mean you're still getting married.

Olivia: Yes, I am.

Red: Early next year. It's still a busy time. How are you feeling?

Olivia: Yeah, pretty overwhelmed. I feel like this year's been a big year at The D*List. We've had so many new projects and all that on the go and producing, making, planning a wedding is like another whole life project. You only do it once, well, you plan to only do it once in your life, but I feel like my planning of a wedding is similar to work where I'm just very organised, I have lots of lists. I just hustle and get on with things. How about you, how are you?

Red: Yeah, really good. I've got this beautiful thing I thought I'd share with you today from one of our D*List members. Their Instagram handle is "Thoughts with Wairua" and it's this beautiful collection of poetry by Wairua and it's called A Letter to Myself. And they packaged it up so beautifully with some lollies and this beautiful sticker that says "Thoughts with Wairua". And just a shout out to them and their work and their beautiful poetry. We love disabled poets at the D*List and, yeah, got this beautiful pukapuka to put up in the office. So if you're interested in finding out more, Thoughts with Wairua is their Instagram handle.

Olivia: Lovely, I'll have a look through that.

Red: Feeling good, feeling nice to spend time in community. I also turn 40 this weekend...

Olivia: Wow, big milestone. How do you feel?

Red: Oh, it's hard getting old. Officially you're into old man territory, which is challenging, but also I hear that the older you get, the less you care about what people think. God knows we all could do with a bit more of that, so I'm quite excited.

Olivia: That's priceless. Before we have our guest, Payton, on, we're going to do one of our favourite segments, which is non-disabled nonsense. While you have time to think of yours, Red, I will share mine. Gareth and I, while also getting married, are looking to buy a house. You know, just two big things in the same time, why not. So we're going to so many open homes, every weekend. We've probably gone to maybe eight open homes a weekend, it's quite hectic. So open home after open home, you start to recognise all the same real estate agents over and over again and they try and build rapport and all this kind of stuff. And there was a real estate agent we saw multiple times and she was really excited to see us at another house, and she was like "Oh, I've been really wanting to get in touch with you guys and tell you about this beautiful house. I'll show you the photos, it's going to be on the market tomorrow" or something like that. So we looked at her home. It was this beautiful, lovely house that had a nice sea view and it had this kind of like wrap-around deck. And usually sea view cliff top type houses are not accessible because they're on a slope. So we were just thinking about -- I was asking about the access. She's like "Oh, it's so easy, you just put in a lift."

Red: Oh, easy.

Olivia: Just put in a lift.

Red: I'm putting in lifts every other day.

Olivia: So Gareth's like not trusting her again, not that we trusted them much in the first place. But that's my non-disabled nonsense of the week. How about you?

Red: People don't really appreciate what's involved, eh. Also, you on a cliff top, love that for you, it's so good. My thing was just -- it's not even particularly nonsense, but I just felt sorry for this person. So you know how as disabled people we're often apologising for existing, and the burdens that we place on other people and the inconveniences that we are in our lives.

Well, I went to see a film at a cute, independent cinema on Saturday last week and the wheelchair access is through the lift. But in order to get into the lift, you have to like call up on the phone and they have to come and get you. So I called up on the phone and she came up and got me and then she came down. But I realised that she was the only person working at the movie theatre that day. So she was on-- like, she was making popcorn, she was selling tickets, she was doing ice creams, she was making -- you know how they sell pizza now at the movies, like food, she was doing hot food, and she was also on wheelchair call belt duties.

I was, like, if we want to alleviate our collective burden complex, employ more staff and get someone else the job of looking after the wheelchairs in the lift. I felt like I had to apologise to this poor girl for taking up 5 minutes of her time to come and do the lift duty when she had, like, pizzas to cook. Anyway, and the queue when we got back of course the queue was long because everyone was waiting for this single staff member who was on wheelchair duty. So I guess it's less non-disabled nonsense and more systemic nonsense.

It's all bad.

Olivia: Yeah, not employing enough people nonsense.

Red: Exactly. Alright, shall we meet Payton.

Olivia: Yeah, come on over, Payton. We have a spare chair here.

Red: Payton was previously the youth MP for Kahurangi Carter, who's a Green MP, and we're looking forward to hearing all about it. Tēnā koe Payton.

Payton: Kia ora Red.

Red: Lovely to have you on Crip Café today. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your whānau.

Payton: So my name is Payton obviously. I'm 18 years old and when I was 13 my brain exploded. Well, a rare rupture, but I like saying my brain exploded. So yeah, that's how I became physically disabled. And I just went on a journey to build up my mobility and stability ever since.

Olivia: Cool, and you've got lots of your whānau watching and supporting you today.

Payton: Yeah.

Olivia: You live in Manurewa, is that right?

Payton: Yes.

Olivia: Very cool. Well, I think we first got in touch as -- I think you had just finished being the youth MP.

Payton: Yes.

Olivia: We had a story about you on the D*List. So tell us a little bit about that experience. How did you get involved?

Payton: So I actually met Kahurangi, who's my MP, at a noho in Whangārei. I don't know which company was holding it, I've forgotten, but, yeah, so that's how I met her. And I had originally thought of applying for other MPs, the Green Party MPs, and I just was looking, but I didn't feel like any of them really resonated with me. And then when I met Kahu at the marae in Whangārei, she asked me to apply for her. So I applied for her and what do you know, I'm her youth MP.

Olivia: Very cool. And we don't see many disabled politicians.

Payton: Yeah.

Olivia: So what was the experience like for you going around parliament and experiencing that?

Payton: Well, it's sort of accessible, but there's also -- like, the main entry where everyone needs to go in isn't accessible at all. And why is the main entry not accessible? That's how people get in. Yeah.

Olivia: Tell me a bit about, you know, like I said, not many disabled MPs. Why do you think that is? Why are there so many barriers?

Payton: If I'm being honest, I think there is a lot of ableism in the structure of parliament. Politicians, there's lots of criteria you have to meet, and I feel like as someone with a disability, it's a lot harder to, like, fit into that criteria. And then if you do, you're not recognised as a person who can be in the forefront.

Olivia: Red, you visited parliament buildings recently.

Red: Yeah, so I know all about the stairs that you're talking about Payton. It looks like there are some exciting changes happening to make the building more physically accessible. They are removing some of the seats in the debating chamber, so if you have a walking aid or a wheelchair, you can hop in there with that which is awesome. But tell us a little bit about some of the changes that you would make if you were in charge of, you know, the parliament space. What's the first thing that you would do to make it more accessible?

Payton: Oh, I would put in a lot more elevators. Like, that's the easiest way for people to get around. So there should be more elevators. Because when I was there, we had one elevator in, like, the main foyer bit. Like, the elevator couldn't actually get everywhere. So you had to walk all the way to the other elevators. And it was so tiring, because you were walking back and forth all day.

Red: That's so hōhā if you have to use all your energy just to get around the building.

Payton: Yeah.

Red: Tell us have you always been interested in politics, Payton, is this something you've always wanted to do?

Payton: No, actually, when I was quite young I wanted to be an architect, but I'm really not good at geography, so I got rid of that idea. And like I was touch and go with everything for a while there, and then after my injury and all that, in 2023 the election year that year, I started becoming more active in politics. And then I became more aware that there's no politicians like me that are there. But they like making so many changes to legislation that affects us.

Red: Yo, kōrero.

Olivia: I was about to say, why is it so important to see disabled politicians in parliament?

Payton: Because when you're a young child growing up disabled and you don't see any representation of yourself anywhere in, like, important places, you grow up feeling like you're not a person, like, you don't matter in society. So, like, that's a major reason why.

Olivia: Like you said, politicians are the ones making the final decisions on things that impact us the most. I mean we can share a small handful of, you know, decisions and policies and legislation that's happened more recently that affect us. But the decision-makers who sign the final pieces of paper -- actually I don't know if they actually sign final pieces of paper, I'm imagining some dramatic signing in my head. But typically they are not disabled themselves.

Payton: No.

Red: So how did that experience of being a youth MP kind of change you? Did it give you more confidence, did it give you more knowledge? How do you feel coming out of that experience?

Payton: I feel like my mind is definitely a lot more made up, that I want to pursue a career somewhere in politics. So it definitely cleared a lot of things up for me. And it definitely made me more confident in myself and, like, of being in parliament as, like, really the only disabled youth MP made me realise we need more people like us making decisions about us. So I want to be there for that.

Red: Yes, absolutely. We've got a comment in the chat, Payton, maybe we'll get Olivia to read it out.

Olivia: "We need more" -- I'm guessing that means disabled MPs. "The idea of being one of a handful of disabled MPs adds even more pressure to disabled people that do run for election". Yeah, so true.

Red: That's so true, right, because we've got disabled MPs right now, but they, for whatever reason, might be reluctant to strongly identify as disabled because the weight of expectation on that. I remember one of our kaimahi Ida did an interview with Tamatha Paul earlier this year and she talked about being concerned about the weight of expectation of the entire disabled community on one or two people. It's probably not a realistic expectation eh. So yeah, Soph is right, we need more and more, it's not up to one person, it's got to be a collective job.

Olivia: I think it's not just even in politics, although obviously that's a very important area to see more disabled people, but I think across different industries; I know I've been in workplaces before where I've been the only disabled person and I've been there to do a particular role, but just because I so happen to also be a disabled person, and have this knowledge, I'm kind of -- have been like "Oh Olivia, can you advise us on this, or help us with this", regarding accessibility, or inclusion or those types of things. It hasn't been in my official job description, but because it's something I'm passionate about and I'm there, and I'm like well if I don't do it who else will do it. So I really felt, you know, you really feel that burden. So yeah, we definitely need to have more disabled MPs. But also, like you said, like the structures in place need to be more accessible, whether it's like the physical space, or even just, like, attitudes towards, you know, having disabled politicians. Like, how do we broaden that, how do we make it something more appealing. Because whether I was disabled or not, I don't know if I could handle being an MP, it's very stressful.

Red: Yeah, so stressful. Because sometimes they're up until, like, midnight doing debates and stuff. Were you there on any late nights, or did they get you home in time for bed?

Payton: No, we were lucky and they had a strict schedule we were following. So like we had a time period to do our general debate speeches, the question times and parliamentary working groups. They planned everything out to the littlest detail. They even planned when we were eating.

Olivia: Wow.

Payton: Like, okay.

Red: They fed you. Was the food good?

Payton: I wouldn't say I'd rush back to it. But it definitely cured my hunger, so...

Olivia: It did the job.

Payton: Yeah.

Red: Hey this will be the first election where you can vote.

Payton: Yes.

Red: You don't have to tell us who you're going o vote for, but are you excited to cast your vote this election?

Payton: Yes, I'm so excited. I'm ready for a change. So I want to be part of the reason for that change, so, can't wait.

Olivia: Yeah, not all of us might be built for being an MP, but we all have the ability to vote.

Red: Correct. Well said.

Olivia: So Payton, why do you think it's so important to vote? I know this is something you're really passionate about.

Payton: Well, it's important to vote because you need to vote for a candidate who supports your views. And if not enough people vote, you get stuck with the one MP who got, like, the majority of the votes. And we know the statistics of, like, the amount of voters and it's more in favour, I would say, the older people are enrolled. And if all the people that are enrolled are older people, they're not really affected that much by, like, changes in legislation and things. It's the younger ones who have to grow up with that effect of all of that legislation. So that's why it's important to vote for the MP who you think resonates with you the most so that they pass legislation and bills that help, or aid in the well-being of yourself.

Red: Amazing kōrero, yeah, totally agree. Not to put you on the spot, but if you were elected as Prime Minister, what's one of the first things that you would do to make a positive change for your communities and whānau?

Payton: I'd actually give more funding to rehabilitation clinics, like Wilson Centre, shout out to Wilson Centre.

Red: Shout out to Wilson Centre.

Olivia: We've all done a stint in Wilson Centre.

Red: We've all been to Wilson Centre.

Payton: Yeah. So they don't get nearly enough funding. And it's just places like those that are really what keep us going. So they really need it the most.

Red: What about you, Olivia, what would be the first thing that you would do as queen of -- you're not Prime Minister you're queen, let's be honest, what are you doing as queen of Aotearoa?

Olivia: I really have not thought about this.

Red: This is why we need our youth MPs around the country, decisive action.

Olivia: Yeah, I'm trying to think of something fun to boost our morale currently. Not just kill the DSS bill, but something fun like, I don't know, give all disabled people free ice cream on Fridays.

Red: That's a great bill, I could get behind that, free ice cream on Fridays.

Payton: Ice cream!

Red: Just to round out the kōrero around accessibility within parliament, so was lucky to be down in parliament a few weeks ago and met with the Stew Sexton, who's their accessibility advisor down there. Amazing guy who's a wheelchair user. He's done a bunch of things. He's removed some of the seats from the debating chamber, he's made flexible microphones, so a little bit more like these ones, because the standard microphones are quite short on the, what do you call those things, they speak in front of, the lecturns or whatever, just like a short microphone, so they're more flexible. He's done other things like -- so right now if you're doing a debate in the house and you want to speak, like, do a speech, you have to stand up. That's how you let them know that you're ready to speak. But of course if you can't stand up then you'll never get to speak. So Stew has made these little buttons where if you're sitting down at your desk you can push the button and then it alerts the speaker that you want to speak, so that's really awesome.

Then I think the other thing they've done is closed captioning on an iPad. So if you're Deaf or hard of hearing, you can have the live captions displayed on an iPad in front of you. And there's actually someone in the house at the moment, I don't know who it is, an MP who is using that technology. So just goes to show that there are lots of people with various disabilities in parliament right now that we don't even know about who are, like, hopefully doing the right thing by our people.

Payton: Hopefully.

Red: Yeah, but it's really cool to see that there are some really awesome accessibility changes underway at parliament. So that when a young person who might have a mobility impairment or something is keen to be a part of democracy that they know this is their home as well, you know?

Payton: Yeah, because when I was in the debating chamber, I did notice that where Kahu sits is a bit up, like, behind a few rows. So you actually have to walk up a few stairs to get there. But I can't, obviously, and the youth MP for Mārama Davidson, Daisy, Daisy, yeah, she kindly gave me her seat because she was in the front. And that was so nice that someone thought about me, or like, just did that little thing that made it a bit easier for me to partake in this.

Red: Shout out to Daisy.

Payton: Yeah, love you Daisy.

Red: Love you Daisy, so good.

Olivia: It's cool how one person can make such a difference, not just in our lives personally, but I don't know if we've had any comments regarding disabled MPs, but Mojo Mathers, she made a pretty big impact in her time as a politician.

Payton: Yeah.

Olivia: In terms of making systems more accessible. I'm pretty sure they implemented more use of NZSL and closed captioning and things like a light alarm system to call politicians to the debating chamber rather than an audible sound. So like, those are just some of the things that were implemented in her time, but that will pave the way for future politicians as well.

It shouldn't have to be -- the onus shouldn't have to be on the disabled person, but it just so happens to be the case.

Red: Totally. Alrighty, any final words, Payton? What would you saw o your fellow rangatahi out there, who says "Oh but who cares, my vote doesn't matter, I'm just one person, why would they even listen to me?" What's your final message to them?

Payton: Your vote does matter. You could be the one person who inflicts change in the government. So just think about that if you decide you don't want to vote, because you are important and your voice does matter.

Red: Love that, love that. We have one little message to you from someone in the chat.

Olivia: Ella says "What great representation for our disabled community, let alone our disabled Māori wāhine. Tino pai Payton".

Payton: Ngā mihi.

Red: Awesome. Just some notes on voting for anyone who feels inspired by Payton's kōrero. You have to enrol by midnight on 25 October. You can enrol online and you can find out how to enrol if you need support and different accessible ways of voting. So we can find out all the information you need on vote.nz and voting then opens the day after enrolment closes on 26 October and voting closes on Saturday 7 November. So plenty of time to get enrolled. You've still got about six, seven weeks. But, yeah, if we've learned one thing today, it's get enrolled, because your voice matters and your vote matters.

Payton: Mmm-hmm.

Red: Kia ora. What are we doing to wrap the show today, Olivia?

Olivia: Well, we would sometimes have disability dilemmas, but I don't think we've had any in this particular episode. But what should I do next time, an agent says just put in a lift when I go to an open home. That's my dilemma. What's a funny clap back.

Red: "You put in a lift", I think that's it, it'll be like "You put in the lift".

Olivia: Then I'll buy your house.

Red: Yeah, exactly, exactly. But, yeah, love this idea of making our democracy more representative of all the people. I mean disabled people are one in five of the population, they should be one in five of our MPs. But maybe if they didn't have so many stairs, stay up to midnight doing work.

Payton: Yeah.

Red: That's not an environment that's conducive to disabled people.

Olivia: Just put in a lift.

Red: Just put in a lift, or, as Payton would say, many, many lifts?

Payton: Yeah.

Red: I think that's the moral of today's story is more lifts.

Payton: Or, like, ramps or --

Olivia: At least, surely.

Payton: -- something.

Olivia: Cool, well thank you so much, Payton, for sharing your wisdom and your experiences with us.

Payton: Thank you for having me.

Olivia: Thank you, Red, for joining this episode.

Red: It's been awesome to hear the wisdom of our rangatira mō āpopo, and look forward to voting for you one day, Payton.

Payton: Thank you. I hope so.

Olivia: And thank you to our audience for watching. We'll see you in another two weeks, and...

Red: And a massive thank you to our team, or supporters, our friends, our whānau at Permobil. This season of Crip Café continues to be proudly powered by Permobil. See you in two weeks. Ka kite.

Olivia: Bye.