Election 2026: Disability Debate

Watch the Disability Debate, hosted by The D*List and The University of Auckland Disabled Students Association, as the major political parties debate the issues that matter to Deaf and disabled communities.

Read the full transcript below for The Disability Debate.

Red: Tēnā koutou katoa. Tēnā koutou katoa, nau mai haere mai te kaupapa, ka tīmata tātou i te karakia, me karakia tātou. Tūtawa mai i runga, tūtawa mai i raro, tūtawa mai i roto, tūtawa mai i waho. Kia tau ai te mauri tū, te mauri ora ki te katoa. Haumi e, hui e, tāiki e.

Olivia: Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou. Nau mai haere mai ki te Disability Debate. Ko Olivia Shivas ahau. My name is Olivia, I'm the editor at The D*List and welcome to the Disability Debate this evening. This event is a partnership between The D*List and Auckland University Disabled Students' Association. Thank you all for coming this evening.

So we invited candidates from all the major political parties, and this evening we have representatives from four of the parties who will share with us how they plan to support our communities and what's important to us should they get into government. As of 45 minutes ago, we had NZ First candidate, but unfortunately he could not make it, and Rima from National had confirmed her attendance but could not come due to unforeseen circumstances.

So just want to note that we don't have candidates from the coalition government, but I want to thank these four for coming this evening. We have Orini Kaipara from Te Pati Māori, Cody Marsh from The Opportunity Party, Ricardo Menendez March from Greens and Priyanca Radhakrishnan from Labour. So thank you for being here this evening.

Our moderators are Ayobi Martins who is co‑president at the Auckland University Disability Students Association and the Disabilities Rights Officer for Auckland University Students Association. We also have Red Nicholson who is Executive Director at The D*List and, as a quick disclaimer, he is also involved in Inclusive Greens, but tonight he is wearing his D*List hat and D*List t‑shirt. So these two will be our candidates this evening asking the tough questions.

So part of my role as the MC is that we've got quite a lot of housekeeping to get through so we have a great lively and safe event. So as you came through the main entrance doors to this seminar room, the toilets were around that area, so there are male, female and gender neutral accessible bathrooms outside the seminar door, and if you need someone to guide you, please find a D*List staff member wearing a t‑shirt and a lanyard or an AUSA volunteer.

In the event that we have an emergency like a fire or earthquake, Matthew Lee from AUSA is our designated official and is trained as a fire warden for the event. So we also have D*List staff and AUSA volunteers here to support so we can leave safely.

Then we also have, so they will help us exit if there's an emergency in an earthquake, if we're inside, please move no more than a few steps but drop cover and hold and we will stay indoors until the shaking stops, if that should happen. It might be a lively debate and the room might shake for other reasons.

We also have a first aid kit on site, so please let us know if you need any help with that, and we also have some Auckland University security guards around the building.

Well‑being and respect is a very important part of today's event, so if at any point you feel unsafe or have unwanted comments or attention, please let a D*List staff member know. Everyone is welcome here and you should feel respected. And we also have some quiet spaces out in the corridor if you want to take a break. We ask that our audience are respectful during the debate and the panellists, please respect the time you are given to answer questions and we'll have a bell to keep things on track as well.

So just so you know for people in the room, this event is being livestreamed and recorded. We also have a photographer taking photos. We won't be identifying specific people apart from the panellists, but if you don't want your photo taken just please let our photographer know.

How this event will run, so as we planned this event, obviously there are so many topics and issues we could cover, but in order for this to be a timely event so we're not here until midnight, we have four areas we will cover, so funding, accessibility, education and employment. We will have a time for audience Q&A at the end and you'll see a QR code as well. And we encourage you to submit questions. And then we will wrap up by giving panellists an opportunity to close with some final words.

So thank you all for coming again, I'm going to now hand it over to Ayo and Red.

Red: Tēnā koutou. Welcome to the Disability Debate. Make some noise. So excited to be here, and we're grateful to all our candidates tonight for taking the time out to kôrero with us and answer these very important questions to our candidates. So we're going to ask our panellists to introduce themselves. And if can you, please share your connection to the disability community, or why this kind of area, this community matters to you. We'll give you about a minute each to introduce yourself in whatever way you would like. And Priyanca we might start with you just because our t‑shirts are matching today. Well chosen, well chosen.

Priyanca: Thank you, couldn't resist. Tēnā koutou katoa. My name is Priyanca Radhakrishnan and I'm the Labour spokesperson for disability issues. Prior to the '23 election for a period of time I was the Minister For Disability Issues. Part of a government that established Whaikaha The Ministry of Disabled People and made a number of changes that aimed to give disabled people more choice and control over the services that they accessed and more independence in their lives. This has all been derailed in the last three years.

And I will make the point that we weren't perfect, we didn't always get everything right, but the direction of travel was one that was in line with Enabling Good Lives, Te Tiriti o Waitangi and the UNCRPD. All of that's been derailed by the current government who have systemically stripped away the rights of disabled people, reduced access to funding and didn't bother to show up today sadly.

Ricardo: Kia ora koutou, my name is Ricardo Menendez March, I'm a Green Party member of parliament and the candidate for Mt Albert. I hold the social development and employment portfolio as well as Immigration, Primary Health and Commerce and Consumer Affairs. Our vision is for disabled people to be fully able to experience their self‑determination and to have access to a fulfilling life where they can fully participate in their communities.

And we're really proud of the mahi that my colleague Kahurangi Carter has done to advocate on these issues, and I'm connected to some of these issues, particularly in my Immigration and Social Development portfolio, and I wanted to give a shout out, I think there's a handful of members here from a colleague called Migrants Against Acceptable Standards of Health, which we love, but is a collection of migrants that has been fighting for disabled migrants to have effectively their human rights of health and the immigration system, one that continues to be threatened with deportation to disabled people and I get to work a lot with disabled people within the welfare system as well. Kia ora.

Cody: Kia ora, my name's Cody, I'm the Northcote candidate for The Opportunity Party. My background is around paramedicine so have worked within some areas with disability when responding to that working across the system, and also had my mum ended up having a stroke, so I have a little bit of an experience around some of those difficulties, just a very brief touch around it, and now I have a little bit of an understanding.

Unfortunately Romeo wasn't able to be here today so I've stepped in to help, but from our point of view we want to ensure that we're removing those barriers and supporting people with disability to have independence and make the choices that are really, really important to them, so thank you.

Orini: E ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā raurangatira, hurinoa, tēnā koutou katoa. My name is Orini Kaipara and I represent Te Pati Māori, but I am also the serving member of parliament for Tāmaki Makaurau, I represent Māori who live here in Auckland.

My affiliation or affinity for the disability community, we don't isolate or separate or divide our whānau. And in my whānau, my own whānau, I had an older cousin, she's been long passed away now, but she was in a wheelchair and she was the first in all of our whakapapa who exposed us to care at its most core essence, how to care for a person who doesn't look like me, who doesn't sound like me, who can't walk.

Throughout my career I've always prioritised those pushed to the margins. Māori are in that category, disability. Māori are over‑represented amongst the communities that are always pushed and shoved down by government. So I'm here really as an advocate, a very strong and committed advocate, committed to never leaving anybody behind no matter who you are, what you look like and especially in Tāmaki Makaurau.

Ayo: Kia ora. Once again everyone, I'm Ayo, I will be your second moderator this evening. And in the spirit of being at a university, certainly fitting that we begin our formal line of questioning in the area of education. So we will start there. Disabled students in Aotearoa experience a significant educational achievement gap. As a matter of fact, a recent ERO report has found that disabled students are vastly more than twice as likely to leave school with no formal qualifications when compared to their non‑disabled peers.

Question, how will your party close the educational achievement gap and ensure that education is accessible to all learners? Priyanca, why don't we start off with you once again.

Priyanca: Cool, thank you. One of my lasting memories is a group of parents who came to me a few years back and explained how their children weren't getting the support that they needed to be able to stay in school. They just missed out from getting ORS funding and basically the parents were told, within a year your child will regress to the point that you will then qualify for ORS funding.

That is unacceptable. The ORS funding system is broken. When Labour was last in government, we put in place the highest needs review to look at how we fix it, because we put in about $1.3 billion into the system, into the learning support, and realised that putting more money into a broken system just isn't going to work.

Largely what the highest needs review showed was that we need to put the child central to the types of services and supports that they need, regardless of labels. That work was ‑‑ that review was finalised just prior to the '23 election, so we didn't quite get the chance to progress the findings of that.

That will form the basis of the work that we do in the education system if we are elected to government post‑November this year. I know that Ginny Anderson, who's our education spokesperson, she and I have had many conversations about what we do. She's working out what of that we will be able to deliver within our first term and within the fiscal limitations that we will have.

So she will have more specifics to say about that, but this is the process that we undertook and we need to ensure that the foundations are better, the supports are tailored to children who need to access them and that the system actually works so that every child is able to learn, and also transition into higher learning and employment options as well.

Ayo: Awesome, thank you so much for that brilliant well‑worded response. Ricardo, what's on the cards for the Green Party in this area?

Ricardo: Yeah, so for us expanding eligibility for ORS is one of the things we're advocating for, as well as establishing a single agency to coordinate and resource specialist for learners. I think this is also really important when it comes to what Priyanca noted in her introductory remarks, because right now, and I remarked about the immigration settings, the government has effectively pitted disabled students against local student in using the ORS criteria and the resourcing for disabled students as basically a way to pit communities.

It doesn't have to be this way. When Lawrence Xu‑Nan and I, Lawrence is our educational spokesperson, visited at schools, many of them are basically ‑‑ many schools are tapping into their ops, operational funding to basically fill in the gaps. What this tells us is that we need to look again at the tax system so that we can resource all of the support services so that everyone can actually have everything they need in the education system and people can have far more equitable outcomes, so these are the things for us that we're prioritising.

The other thing would be ensuring that we actually support the agencies frame of reaction and that we actually fund it so that it can actually come into fruition.

Ayo: Thank you so much for that. On to the lovely candidate from The Opportunity Party.

Cody: Thank you, so we're in support of young people, children having the same opportunities to get the same education they can within the school with their peers, and that means removing any barriers for them, that might be around disability, but basically removing any barriers that's going to be in the way for them to achieve that.

In order to do that we're going to have to support services that are going to be able to provide those extra learning support, and the range of those is basically learning support coordinators, RTLBs, those teachers who are going to be able to support as well, speech language therapists, mental health services, those wrap‑around services that are also going to be really beneficial to enable people to stay in school and get that education.

As for adults, we are supportive of adults being able to do the same, that they can go into higher education, and that then obviously leads on further into things like employment as well. So basically the whole point is to ensure that there is more independence and people are able to make the choices that will benefit them as well, thank you.

Ayo: Awesome, thank you. To you Orini.

Orini: Tēnā koe. Te Pati Māori is committed to prioritising the community and not trying to put a facade that we are experts and we're going to design policies and speak at you. We want you to advise us. I'm acknowledging the fact that we don't have right now a dedicated comprehensive policy for disability, but we had in the last election in 2023 we pushed through, our policy was mana hauā tangata and prioritising especially the Māori community, ensuring that they had equitable funding for the necessary supports that we recognised back then.

However, just in the last three years severe damage has been caused by this government, especially to Te Tiriti. Entrenchment of Te Tiriti really does set the record straight and really does address the need right now to stop the status quo, eh, to transform the system that has been just spoken of right now. It's broken and it's been broken for generations.

How do you unbreak a broken system? You have to be bold and brave and ensure that Te Tiriti is at the heart of everything we do, because it aligns with our values, it safeguards everybody in Aotearoa, not just Māori, but it ensures that the Crown prioritises people but for profit and it sets the way where we can all ensure equitable funding, equitable accessibility to things that we need right now.

But more than that, it's valuing education, our teachers, it's investing in capacity and capability. We know that. This government has taken away, stripped away specialist teachers and classes, more than just our tamariki, it's yes, ensuring pathways for adults, for young rangatahi who have left school, who haven't been in school for a long time, who do have difficulties and challenges that face them, is making sure that community‑led service providers are funded properly.

We know there's amazing people in our communities who are just not being listened to or being supported by government or the agencies responsible. The fact that the Minister herself didn't fund anything this year, this year's budget to address the dire need to support whānau that are struggling right now, disability whānau, is a catastrophe and that's what we're fighting to transform come November 8th, ensuring Te Tiriti is entrenched, the tax system is transformed and we start really producing and investing in local solutions like renewable energies.

Red: Our next question picks up on the thread that came through, that last kôrero around ORS funding. We know that, like many Disability Support Services, ORS funding is locked behind a diagnosis. And for many of our whānau, getting diagnoses can be really challenging, it can cost a lot of money to get private diagnoses through psychotherapists, for example, and they can be a real barrier to people getting the support that they need.

So how will your party reduce barriers for young people to access the learning support they need through making it easier to get things like diagnoses that would be useful. 30 seconds on this one, just to keep the pace up. Orini, we might start with you again if that's okay.

Orini: I'll be quick. One of our philosophies in Te Pati Māori is take the service to the people, don't force the people to go to the service because we know in many regions there are no services. So rather than relying on your old school way of thinking that set up a building here in this suburb and expect everyone to get there, no, send the services to the people. So it's investing in things like Whānau Ora that we pioneered many years ago, and safeguarding and preserving the great solutions that we have now.

Cody: Yeah, we believe that everybody should have the funding that is required, or the support that's needed to be able to live a fulfilling life. That means healthcare is a part of that that comes into it. So when you're talking about getting diagnosis and the funding that comes around that, we want to move towards more what is the functional need of that, how long is that going to be, not just having a diagnosis. We want to be able to support you more by understanding better what's needed to be able to provide that better care. We also have things like citizens income, disability support and other financial support that can help.

Ricardo: Yeah, so providing greater access to primary care, the Greens put in the green budget a plan to make sure that we can deliver mobile services as well as making it free and bringing primary care into public ownership, which will help give greater access to diagnosis. But expanding the ORS eligibility criteria will also help expand who can get access to it. So it's a combination of greater access to primary care and also expanding the eligibility criteria. And right now I acknowledge that for many people a diagnosis can unfortunately be the opposite of freeing, so that discrimination based on diagnosis needs to end. [Applause]

Priyanca: Ultimately we do need to move away from labels determining the type of care and level of care that people can access. We have to focus on early intervention when it comes to the education system and people getting the care that they need. Labour's focus is on fixing the healthcare system in a climate where the current government has just hired 54 nurses over the last three years and decimated our healthcare system. We will focus on steps towards free primary healthcare and freeing up specialists that way.

Ayo: Kia ora. On to our next question, still in this line of education, of course. Now down to a more (inaudible) example from students on campus here at the University of Auckland and around the motu as well. Feedback from disabled students nationwide highlights that a vast majority feel that they're underserved and entirely abandoned regarding universal support services, facilities and even in the classroom.

Question, how will your party ensure that universities are following through on their commitments to disabled students? And I reckon we go from the middle and either way. We'll start with you, Ricardo.

Ricardo: There's I think a range of interventions we could put. But I'm thinking often with student services, voluntary student membership has really diminished the resources that the student unions basically have. So the full student membership with greater involvement from students and the design of the services is really critical to that, and disabled students have to be a critical voice in the design of any of these services as well. So that's one component of it.

The other thing I think we also need to accept is that currently the allowance for students are far too low and for disabled people that exacerbates their experiences.

Cody: Yes, so we, yeah, there's barriers there in place, right, so how do we start to reduce that? That is again with that consultation with the people who are going to be most affected by it, that's how we can start to reduce that. And again, there is supported services that we want to bring forth, I think those can potentially be brought into university and then funding also to go along and support that as well.

Orini: I'm disheartened and sad for the statement that you just made, as a mum, but also as an aunty and a cousin, I can empathise with that. Yeah, the solution really is simple for me, but I know it's hard to convey, and especially to try and get on‑board all of Aotearoa, it really does start with our fundamentals, our foundations and the foundation of our whenua is Te Tiriti. Te Tiriti ensures that we all have a say, but local communities retain that mana motuhake. It's not a Māori thing mana motuhake. You have agency to design the policies that are going to impact your life. That's what entrenchment of Te Tiriti is to us.

Priyanca: Yeah, I was just thinking through the barriers, I guess, and the solutions. I know that universities have disability strategies that they're meant to be implementing. I'd be keen to tease into that further, why aren't those working, what more do we need to do to support students in universities to remove those barriers.

I know some do it better than others. I understand Otago and AUT do some really interesting things to remove barriers for students. We'd need to look at how we take some of the good examples, whatever they are, whichever universities, and I guess ensure that the universities do that too, and students are at the heart of that.

Red: Kia ora. Our next ‑‑ keep me on my toes Anthony. Our next section's employment and we've got two questions under the topic of employment. We'll start with you with this one, Priyanca, because I know when Labour was in government they were making some steps towards this.

In New Zealand, in Aotearoa it's still legal to pay a disabled person as little as $2 per hour under the Minimum Wage Exemption. Isn't it time to abolish the Minimum Wage Exemption? [Applause]

Priyanca: Labour in government committed to and funded scrapping the Minimum Wage Exemption. We had policy work underway towards an alternative system where all disabled people would be paid at least the minimum wage like everybody else, but there would be job losses at the same time.

Now we didn't get to a point of implementing that policy, we should have been quicker there. But now the current government has scrapped all of that work, they have decided to retain the Minimum Wage Exemption, they're okay with it apparently. And also the money that we had ring‑fenced for that alternative has been returned to Treasury. So that's not even there.

Of course we want to abolish this, that will always remain our policy. We need to figure out if that is something that we can fund and deliver within the first term and we'll have a bit more to say about that. We will also, on the topic of employment, we have made the commitment to restore pay equity legislation within the first 100 days and provide an interim payment to care and support workers as well.

Red: That's not a firm commitment, if Labour was to be elected, that's not a firm commitment to abolish the minimum wage?

Priyanca: We're working towards whether we can. There's no money there for it now because the money's taken that away. So we need to make sure ‑‑ we can say that we will abolish it, we need to be able to fund it. We need to be able to deliver and fund it in the first term and we will have more to say about that when we can.

Ricardo: We do support the abolishment of this Minimum Wage Exemption. And I prosecuted Louise Upston in the select committee when she removed the subsidy that was going to be put in place for employers. I briefly want to talk about how frankly bullshit it was, that Louise Upston said that there would be job losses if we kept going with the subsidy when it literally was subsidising employers to make those wages minimum wage.

And why is it that it has to be the same old workers who have to face the brunt of cuts when this government and other political parties refuse to tax the super rich. So we can absolutely get rid of this Minimum Wage Exemption, and there are ways to make sure we support employers so they don't threaten people with job losses. But it is the case we should not have young people or disabled people being told they should work below minimum wage when we already know the minimum wage is barely enough to survive to begin with. [Applause]

Red: I will say, not for the last time tonight I'm sure, I wish we could challenge the Minister on her record tonight, but she chose to decline our invitation. Cody.

Cody: Yes, so we are for removing any barriers that are going to basically be for disabled people getting into employment. When it comes to the minimum wage, we would want to repeal that as well, we don't think that's ‑‑ coming to work and doing a job and being paid less (inaudible) so we're against that.

The things we believe we could help support more is around citizens income, disability top‑up, help reducing those poverty traps that are going on. The other areas that's kind of been said as well with the others is around supporting those employers to take on those who have a disability, but also ensuring that we maintain that to enable them to still being employed.

Again, coming back to those wrap‑around services, education to make sure that they can stay employed, continue and can grow and flourish basically. Because obviously the overall thing we want is an environment, a system that's going to provide, well, not going to have any barriers for somebody in employment.

Red: And sorry, just a check, is that a yes, or a no, on abolishing the Minimum Wage Exemption?

Cody: To repeal it, yeah.

Orini: Absolutely we oppose it vehemently, Te Pati Māori, it was written in our policy in 2023, mana hauā tangata policy back then and we maintain that position right now. For me, my position as MP for Tāmaki Makaurau is that disability should never justify poverty wages. So it's about recognition of the mahi you do and get paid for merit. It's a hard yakka looking after whānau. I know this intimately.

Another story, I experienced having to care for my ex‑mother‑in‑law who suffered a severe stroke. So I know the hardships whānau face and the fact that you're not recognised as a carer. You can't qualify for any form of payment. You literally have to lean into the whānau unit to support that one person, and it's important work. So it's recognition of the mahi you put in, get paid fairly for it, and we will put in the barriers against government taking, stripping away the rights of tangata hauā, but also of the whānau and communities that serve to protect and support them.

Ayo: Kia ora. This will be our second question on employment. This issue is very dear to my heart, so no more Mr Nice Guy (inaudible) is not sufficient I'm going to push back a bit, so brace yourself. Labour market statistics for disabled people are incredibly grim. 78.4% of non‑disabled aged 18 to 64 are in employment. However, only 36.4% of disabled people in the same age category are employed. For tāngata whaikaha Māori, the employment rate is even lower at barely a third of that working population.

Many disabled students wonder if they're employable, even after completing tertiary study. Question, how will your party support disabled people into sustaining suitable employment? Whoever feels up for the challenge.

Priyanca: One of the things that we ‑‑ so a couple of things here. The stats are shocking, they're absolutely unacceptable, we have to turn those around. There are a few things that we will need to do, both to support disabled people into employment, but also to change the attitudes and stereotypes and perceptions that employers have around hiring disabled people, and we can, I believe, devolve those.

We have committed in our manifesto to repealing ‑‑ amending, sorry, amending the Human Rights Act to define reasonable accommodations and to recognise that denying that is discrimination. That was a recommendation of the UNCRPD that we accepted, we will prioritise that this term.

There are a number of programmes that are currently being funded to support disabled people into employment. We need to do those things much better. There are also other initiatives currently working with employers to challenge perspectives, attitudes. We need to scale those up as well. That's what Labour will do.

Ayo: You say there are initiatives, there are programmes, you need to push back a bit on mindsets of the employers. Don't you feel just instituting policy can sort of reinforce these ideas, especially amongst some groups already hesitant to hire from disabled people?

Priyanca: The one that I would point to, and I've had mixed feedback from people about this, so I take that. But the NZDEN, the Disability Employers Network has been working with some very large organisations, companies, government agencies to put in place targets and tangible actions to shift attitudes and perceptions and hiring practices, not just attitudes as well.

I understand there are aspects of that programme that are working quite well. I would want to look at how we scale that up. So I think it's not about just wanting to shift mindsets, I want to be very clear, it's about changing mindsets. And there are ways within hiring practices to work alongside companies to make those changes.

Ricardo: One of the pieces of legislation that I took part in fighting against were the changes to basically the provisions in our Public Service and the removal of DEI provisions. This directly impacts the hiring practices of public sector agencies when it comes to disabled people. We would restore those provisions so that Public Service, when it comes to the creation of jobs, has a much stronger mandate to actually hire disabled people and to have strategies in place to make sure that equity and inclusion are part of it.

We will take an active role in the creation of jobs. One of the jobs guarantee programme that we've announced, one of the tailored parts of it is that it allows councils to work with the NGO sector and the public sector agencies. And one of the things it will do is it will actually address some of the discrimination that currently exists, not just within disability, but I would say along ethnic lines as well, which able bodied people experience too along ethnic and gender lines, so that's part of it as well.

The other thing as well is that we will remove benefit sanctions so that people on Jobseeker, health condition, enduring disability do not feel forced into jobs that are just not suitable or do not meet their aspirations. [Applause]

And actually the interesting thing is that MSD knows that people on supporting living payment who transition into employment actually stay in that job for longer and report greater satisfaction because they find employment on their own terms as opposed to being pushed by Work & Income into those jobs.

So greater investment into tailored employment support as opposed to sanctions and (inaudible) people will actually result in better employment outcomes for disabled people who may be on welfare support.

Cody: Hello again. So yes, I think a little bit of what everybody has said here, we kind of go along with that. So again, previously I said we want to remove any barriers for somebody going into employment, because that's extremely important. Similar to, like, those poverty traps again to be able to into something that you want to stay in, that's where the citizens allowance is going to help, the disability allowance is going to help and those, you know, accommodation supplements and things are going to help as well.

So that's going to enable people to make decisions that's best for them and going into work that's best for them. But also to ensure they have those services. And then we're willing to work with anybody else that's going to work towards achieving that as well.

Orini: The world is advancing at rapid speed, right, so the industries of yesteryear no longer apply to today. I agree, we need to really look outside the square in terms of what sort of jobs we are either pushing from government on to our citizens, on to our communities, especially disability communities, while we're listening to them, actually allowing them to lead us in the direction that they need to head into.

What sort of work actually appeals to you, not just what's available on the Seek website from day‑to‑day; actually listening to you, identifying the opportunities, whether it's in technology, AI or, you know, just looking beyond your static mining jobs, working in cafés, which are not dumb jobs, but listening to you.

Beyond that, there is truth in changing attitudes and I believe, Te Pati Māori believes it starts at the top. How we exemplify or role model our values in parliament is detrimental to how the rest of the country, including government agencies, operate. If we give them kudos or permission at the top, which this government has, to many leaders across communities or many business owners to start subjecting, or being directly racist or misogynist, just acting badly, you know, and it starts really in parliament. That's what we've seen for the last three years

We are putting in members bills to hold to account the people who are elected to represent our electorate so that they hold the same standards that we are held accountable to as general New Zealanders or Māori people. They crucify us but they don't look in the mirror and take note of their own actions. So that's what we're pushing as well, correcting the behaviour inside that house so it doesn't overflow into Aotearoa and become normalised practice, because it's not. [Applause]

Red: Olivia is now going to hand out some cards for our lightning round. This is quick‑fire questions. We're going to take things up a notch, e te whānau, and Olivia's got some very exciting quick‑fire questions to share with us all. I'll make sure I read out which way you hold your signs and make some space for Olivia.

Olivia: So we're just going to have a little break from the serious questions and ask some more serious and fun questions. So this is a quick‑fire round. Each of our candidates has an agree or disagree sign, and I've got a few prompts, so it could be either yes/no as well.

So my first question is, just to keep you on your toes; have you ever parked in a mobility carpark before? Okay, Orini's got yes.

Orini: I did it yesterday actually. At the school I went to attend the pōwhiri, please don't ‑‑ no, no, long story short, I was late to the engagement, that was the only carpark and the security guard went "Come here, you're late, you're okay, come in". So I didn't ‑‑ I was told by the security guard. I know, shame. At least I'm honest.

Olivia: Okay, this is quick‑fire. Next one. Will your party commit to implementing the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons With Disabilities in Aotearoa? Everyone agrees, yes.

Next one. Should the lottery individuals with disabilities committee be reinstated? Everyone agrees. Great.

This is a spicy one, but the person this might have been interested is not here. Is it ever okay to use the R‑slur? The R‑slur. Disagree, everyone has disagree.

Should all those steps outside of parliament be replaced with a really long ramp? So, yeah, we've had an agree, the others agree or disagree. Do you have any disabled people informing your parties' policies? We have agree from Priyanca, Ricardo and Orini.

Cody: I don't know who, we have more of a statement, but I do know that we did write (inaudible).

Olivia: Cody (inaudible) agree or disagree. Then the last one for this quick‑fire is, can you sign your name or spell your name in New Zealand Sign Language? Who wants to show us? Orini a no, but Ricardo. Ricardo is spelling his name. Cool. Priyanca? Awesome, that's our quick‑fire round, thank you everyone. [Applause]

Red: Tēnā koutou. Thank you, Olivia, for the quick‑fire questions. I think it's about time, I think it's time we addressed the elephant in the room, or rather the three elephants who aren't in the room, because this week National and ACT both released election promises that would meaningfully harm disabled people. National pledged to re‑introduce random drug testing for people on Jobseeker, and said they would cut payment rates for people on Jobseeker who have been on it for two years which would affect a significant number of disabled people.

Meanwhile the coalition partner ACT want to cut $650 million in spending by, wait for it, kicking people off disability benefits with a particular focus on people with mental health conditions. So by show of hands, who can commit to not progressing any of these policies if you are part of the next government?

That's four hands, kia ora. Let's pretend both of those parties had the guts to show up tonight and just tried to explain these policies to this crowd of people, how would each of you respond? What is your response to that policy agenda? Ricardo we can start with you.

Ricardo: First of all, screw you. But where we say the substance on the policy would be, David Seymour has been going on a crusade against supported living payment. I find it extremely shocking that his argument, again that the cuts are coming from disabled people, I think he doesn't understand that already getting a supported living payment is pretty damn hard. To be able to, A, get a doctor's certificate that tells you you cannot work for two years, to have MSD not challenge that doctor and make you go through the review board basically is already a huge hurdle.

David Seymour wants to create a very specific pool of doctors that only they can then produce those documentations without knowing that MSD already can prescribe a health practitioner to people who are trying to get on the supported living payment. It is time that we treat people on welfare with dignity and respect. We will, if anything, not just (inaudible) those policies, but vital individualised welfare support for supported living payment recipients and other welfare recipients, so that when they enter a relationship they do not have their benefit cut. And ensuring that supported living payment recipients can live with dignity also will reduce the stigma and discrimination that disabled people face. So yeah, that's like bottom of the barrel type politics, I hate it.

Red: Thank you Ricardo. Cody, your party has left the door open with forming a coalition with the aforementioned parties. Presumably who would be still looking to introduce those policies as part of coalition arrangements, what is your response or what is your thoughts on the prospect of working with parties who take that approach to disabled people?

Cody: I can't obviously speak completely around what they would want to do in negotiations, but in saying that, though, the values within the party would not align with (inaudible). We want to ensure that we're moving the country forwards and that just isn't right. It's bad policy, because it’s not taking into account the impacts on the people that it's going to have an effect on, and again, good governance comes with good partnership, good collaboration and good (inaudible). That's how you get good policy that's going to impact people. So something like this is not for that and with our values I don't think we'd go towards that?

Red: Orini, what would you say to the parties if they were here?

Orini: MPs should be randomly drug tested. (Inaudible). Also, it's disgusting that this government increased ‑‑ paid itself first and took all the money away, so $650 million, but here they are piling up their cash and they're incentivising themselves. For every bill that they cross‑over the line under urgency they give themselves a pay increase while the rest of us suffer ‑‑ you, sorry, I'm on this side now, I don't put myself on the bad side of history.

But no, we're going for the good side of history, and it all comes back to vote them out, e te whānau, we will be here until next year, you know, giving them too much gas and too much, like, they have done too much harm to the disability community and many others as well, so it's really ‑‑ we've only got days left to encourage everybody who's eligible to get on the role, whichever role that is.

I am really gunning for Tāmaki Makaurau, but more than anything, I'm here to support everybody in my community, whether you're Māori, Pasifika, Asian, everyone, because we rely on our communities and communities thrive when we start working together. That's why we're committed to, especially with Ricardo Menendez March leading the social development portfolio, absolutely I back him. So party vote Green, candidate vote me. [Applause]

Red: Priyanca, any final words for those National and ACT policies?

Priyanca: Look to them I'd say how dare you. Every time that the – there's a limit to how cruel and callous this government can be. They continue to surprise me in new ways of being completely awful. From taking away flexible funding in March 2024, right through to all of the changes that they made restricting access into residential facilities, gutting Whaikaha, moving DSS into MSD, the new tools that people are telling me are resulting in reduced packages of funding for people, the changes to the benefit reviews that they increased, mandatory reviews that they increased for people, there seems to be no end to their cruelty and their callousness.

Now they can't even be bothered to show up and front and explain why they've done all of this. So I'm with the others here, we need to get everyone enrolled and voting in the next three and a half weeks so that we can kick them out. [Applause]

Ricardo: Can I just say on drug testing, because I know we didn't touch on this. I think this is going to be one that they're going to really use to divide us, right? And something that I think, a tool that I think has been useful for our volunteers who we meet out in the community is to, A, first of all God forbid that unemployed people have more fun, B, it's really important to note that the way they're going to implement those drug tests will not really test for impairment, right?

So talk to your peers about how a lot of these medications will end up getting caught up in those drug tests. People I think are really unaware about the fact that a lot of these drug tests do not test for impairment, they just test for the substance in your bloodstream. And some medications get caught up, and I do actually think we need to have informed conversations in our communities on that, specific policy, because it's some of the more popular and unfortunately noisy policy announcements I think this election.

So I highly encourage that we have brave conversations with our peers, because there's so much stigma on drug use, and I think disabled people face a double stigma when it comes to substance abuse. So, yeah, I'd encourage us all to be courageous with the conversations on substance abuse on this policy.

Red: And of course we would have loved the National and ACT parties to articulate their position with us tonight, but they chose to not attend, which frankly is just not good enough e te whānau.

Priyanca: Can I just say one more thing on that?

Red: Very quickly.

Priyanca: Very quickly, one line. People often think that if they come back here in November, it's going to be three more years of what they've done. It's going to be three more years of worse than what they've done.

Red: We're going to power through our section on funding, and this is just a hand raise question. Obviously we saw an enormous community backlash this year with the DSS bill. Disabled people came out in their thousands and they delivered submissions and they protested and they showed up on the streets in solidarity with one another. A lot of people on DSS support require this funding to live with dignity. Will your party commit to abolishing the DSS bill when you are back in government, a show of hands?

Ricardo: Yes, and replace with full enrolment.

Red: Full hands, nods. Fantastic.

Ayo: Awesome. In your time as mentioned, we've also got a questions on transport, and as far as I remember all of the parties this evening, a policy on transport. And just for context, the current government have amended the way The Total Mobility scheme subsidy functions. They've reduced the benefit from 75% down to 65%. How will your party make transport more accessible and affordable for our disabled community. Anyone from the panel want to speak their policy?

Cody: So we don't have an exact policy on this, but we do have one around making transport free. We'd like to make all public transport free. So the likelihood is that this would, like, not have an impact on that. However, we aren't against repealing anything like this, and if this is a barrier, this would be an area again where we'd be working more towards to address as well.

Ricardo: We support repealing the cuts to The Total Mobility subsidy, but we also support free public transport for Total Mobility users. And I think this is also really important, God forbid that people are able to fully able to participate in community, support to go to the films, to hang out with friends. Transport is a barrier, so it should not be. Repealing those cuts is one step, but The Green Party does also want to make public transport, not just free, but actually increase the frequency and the reliability, which is a really important component for cities like Auckland.

The other thing I will say on public transport, is that ensuring that we also connect our towns and our cities with interregional training, we'll make sure you don't have to just rely on expensive plane tickets, on airlines that are also not always able to accommodate people's needs, so like trains also will create another form of transport that people will be able to access.

Priyanca: Disabled people, everybody must be supported to participate in their local communities, in their society. It was a Labour government that shifted or increased the contribution to the Total Mobility scheme from 50% to 75%. Absolutely oppose the cut this government has made. It is our policy to restore funding and government contribution back to 75% for The Total Mobility scheme.

But we also need to work with providers to ensure that there are ‑‑ I know that many people have to wait a really long time for a taxi or provider within the scheme actually turns up. We need to fix that. We need to ensure that service dogs can be allowed ‑‑ they're allowed by law; we need to ensure that service providers know that's the law and adhere to it. Plus we've got a $20 fare cap on public transport as well to make public transport much more accessible and affordable more broadly.

Orini: Our party will repeal that specific legislation change and restore the 75%. We are also advocating for free public transport for those especially in need, disability communities, our elders, our kids who go to school, but everybody who's in education. Beyond that it is actually ‑‑ we've already been about investing direct into our communities and service providers on the ground who have direct contact with disability whānau, need that support too.

So it's investing there, ensuring adequate funding into the service providers so they can have accessible vans or units and move around and mobilise the community and be there, show up at the doorstep instead of requiring someone to walk to the bus stop five blocks down, you know. And it is about ensuring that there's enough services operating at decent times so you don't have to wait on the side of the road in Te Atatū peninsula, the buss have been 45 minutes to an hour. So it's making it regular so people can reach their appointments, can get around and can live a decent life with dignity and pride, and making sure the buses, or any kind of form of transport, is accessible.

Red: As a proud Westie I appreciate the Te Atatū shout out.

Orini: And the crossing is so dangerous.

Red: We'll (inaudible) that afterwards. I'm conscious of time and I wonder if we skip over the next question and go straight into your question on accessibility and around accessibility legislation. I don't know, Ayo, do you want to pick the first three people to answer this question just to keep the things moving.

Ayo: Yeah, so I'll just jump straight into it. So when you're navigating the world as a disabled person, you're often faced with many barriers; broken lifts, staircases, sound, lighting, whatever it may be. So I guess by and large what does your party stand for when it comes to implementing accessible legislation in partnership with disabled communities?

You look around the world, we've got some splendid examples, such as the ADA over in the States. Unfortunately the process of repeal, but I guess bringing things home to New Zealand, what has your party been considering in terms of bringing in more accessible legislation and partnership with disabled ākonga? Let's start with you, Ricardo.

Ricardo: I mean this is where New Zealand First would have been good to show up, because they've (inaudible) legislation in this space. But I think there is some evidence (inaudible) emphasis on disability rights would be good. And I think that also that will lead us to, for example, us also championing alongside what disabled people have been telling us, you know, make sure our public housing programme builds also are accessible. We have been told time and time again that the current range of the stock is not good enough. Accessibility legislation will actually be the greater mandate so we don't have to find a select committee or percentages of accessible housing for Kāinga Ora as an example of that.

But we do need accessibility legislation, it needs to be co‑designed with disabled people. I think the DSS bill is a good lesson of what not to do when it comes to co‑design, so lessons from there.

Orini: Our motto is nothing about disability communities without disability communities, and that applies to every community that has been smashed and targeted by this government, unfortunately. So with the design of legislation, it really goes without saying that we need to make sure there's a wide breadth of experts informing policies. So we recognise that within the disability community there's a make‑up of Māori, Asian, Pasifika, and it's making sure that everybody is counted, everybody is seen and everybody is valued.

But more than that, drilling into, it goes without saying, goes back to Te Tiriti. Te Tiriti is what forms the foundation for those strong, you know, those courageous discussions that we all must have is how we treat each other starts with just a conversation, listening. Listening is something foreign to this government. Listening directly to the people, especially when you come down to Wellington, stand outside and protest loudly, they don't turn up.

So it's also being very conscious, and social responsibility is don't take that eye off that house, or off your screens, especially when you've got this government in control, and get to the voting booths.

Priyanca: You mentioned the DSS bill. It really pisses me off at the last debate like this last week, the IHC debate, the ACT and National candidates basically crowed about the fact that because of select committee submissions, the Minister now must consult with disabled people. Something that should have been the bare minimum at the start of the process and not as a result of the select committee recommendations.

It is Labour policy to incorporate the UNCRPD into domestic law and a large part of that is around accessibility. The New Zealand First members bill around accessibility standards was introduced just before parliament rose with no costings either. So we are willing to look into it, but I have had feedback that wider disabled people and carers were not part of the drafting of that bill, so I will want to look at that as well.

Ricardo's right, that we'll put to bed the chopping and changing around percentages. When Labour was in government we brought in for the first time the 15% target for Kāinga Ora to build new‑builds to accessible standards. That has been scrapped over the last three years. We are committed to bringing that back and increasing it to 25%. So that whatever we can do in government immediately to put in place for accessible housing and transport and so on, we will do while we work on the legislation to embed that as well.

Red: Just a quick follow‑up, because I know even when that 15% target was in place, I think the reality was in the single digits. What will be different next time in terms of actually making sure we meet that target?

Priyanca: So two things. That is not my understanding. We delivered 19% at the end of the term. It took a long time within the term to get there, to start the build and to get to the 15% across it, but we did by the time we ended, which is why we know that now 25%, it was last always meant to be a movable target, incremental.

The other thing that I've since learned, though, from engagements with the community and those who build accessible homes, is that we have the universal design which is an approach. We don't have a specific standard to build to it. I want us to have a specific standard. So when we say that a house is accessible, it actually is. [Applause]

Red: Fantastic. Our final question before we try and sneak in a few audience questions before we let everybody go. New Zealand Sign Language is an official language in Aotearoa, yet there are still barriers for our Deaf whānau, and particularly for Turi Māori, to access the funding required to communicate in their language, whether it's at school, work or for having fun, oh my gosh the audacity of disabled people to be in the world enjoying ourselves. What is your party's plan to enable Deaf and Turi Māori communities to access the world without those barriers or limitations? Again, I'll take the first three.

Orini: Firstly, we want to increase the funding, it's an abysmal ‑‑ it's shocking that the New Zealand Sign community only gets less than $1 million per annum to fund everything you need. So what trickles down to Turi Māori is nothing, almost nothing, because only $250,000 was dedicated in the last budget round for sign language, but also for Turi community.

I have a nephew who tried hard to teach me how to sign my name in New Zealand Sign Language week, and the conversation ended, he goes "I didn't know I was Māori, aunty, I don't know how to speak Māori, sign Māori." I said "How do I say Aotearoa?" "It doesn't exist aunty." Aunty had a mental break‑down in that moment, like what? The discovery of my 18 year old nephew who has gone throughout life not knowing that there is a language there.

So it's investing education in the creation of the Turi Māori dictionary, if such exists, but we push for positive change so that education is part of the barriers. Understanding each other is a barrier, so investing in those especially. Increasing the funding. It's a shock that as an official language we have not recognised the value of New Zealand sign language and Turi Māori and it's time to do that.

Ricardo: I will say yes, I agree with increasing the funding. We need more resourcing for trilingual interpreters as well, which I think is also really important. It addresses what Orini said. But something that I'm very well aware, we've all made commitments on things that require additional funding.

This is why we'll put a plug on tax policy, because in order for us to genuinely be able to resource the things we all need to live well, we do need to tax the super rich. That revenue can go into resourcing the very same things we just committed to. So we cannot decouple tax reform from all of our funding commitments.

Priyanca: Can I just add, we also need a workforce strategy. Because I think we only have three or four Turi Māori interpreters, so when it comes to accessing NZSL and being able to interpret and therefore have interpreters at all events as well, we need a workforce strategy around that.

Agree with the points around resourcing and increase there, and ultimately we need to win government to be able to do all of this.

Cody: I'll just add, we don't have an exact policy around this, but we'd be willing to work with anything to ensure we can address that situation.

Red: Even National and ACT?

Cody: Hey, if we can get it and that's what you want...

Red: Kia ora. Kia ora everybody, it's an awesome kôrero so far. We've got a little bit of time to squeeze in a couple of audience pātai. The first one I'm going to crack into it and very quickly get on to the first two, is we see news stories, heart‑breaking news stories week after week of migrant families being split up because, despite members of that whānau having worked here in Aotearoa, putting their feet down in Aotearoa, making lives for themselves in Aotearoa, their disabled child is deemed too much of a burden on the State and either that child is sent back to their country, or the whole whānau is ultimately deported.

Some of my favourite disabled people have been migrants to Aotearoa and it's a really devastating ongoing I think blight on our country. What will your party do about ending the acceptable standards of health policy?

Ricardo: We are committed to ending it. Something that many people do not know is that our Immigration Act literally decouples policy‑making from the Human Rights Act. That is something we should all be really concerned about, because we go overseas and say yeah, we'll commit to United Nations Convention on the Rights of People with Disabilities and then domestically on our immigration policy we do the exact opposite.

It's a dog whistle to say that disabled migrants are putting a huge strain on our system when the reality is our health system, education system is strained because of chronic underfunding and a lack of bravery to tax the super rich to resource health, education and other public services. When you start choosing groups that deserve human rights or not, we go down a petty dangerous pipeline.

Red: We'll take one more.

Priyanca: We do have a policy on this, so I'll share, that, and shout out to MAASHA for their advocacy on this issue, very strong. We have committed to reviewing this policy. That's the first step that Canada took towards change as well.

Red: Kia ora. Next audience question, Olivia. Quick, run. Yeah, come.

Olivia: Telling me to run. Yes, you can laugh, you can laugh. Okay, we have had over 70 questions submitted, so we won't have time to get through them all unfortunately, but I'm sure their email inboxes are open if you wanted to contact them directly.

So I'm going to ‑‑ yeah, we've had so many questions, so, sorry we can't get through them, but very quickly we're going to quickly go through a couple. What does honouring Te Tiriti in a disability context entail for your party?

Orini: Honouring Te Tiriti looks like listening to people, going to the people, not expecting the people to come back to you. More than listening, it's inclusivity, for want of a better word, and that's where a huge barrier is right now. So it really is as simple as listening, acknowledging and welcoming your advice, your lives, your lived experience into the policy design.

Priyanca: Partnership.

Ricardo: And the Crown made a promise to look after its subjects. Like, that's not happening.

Cody: Ensuring equal outcomes.

Olivia: Cool, thank you all. Okay, we're going to have time for one more. The genocide in Gaza has been one of the biggest mass disabling events in history. Do you commit to sanctioning Israel, recognising Palestine as a State and expelling the Israeli ambassador?

Ricardo: Yes.

Orini: Thank you for saying it's a genocide.

Priyanca: Yes.

Cody: We believe it's a genocide, we support the two states, but I don't have a policy around whether we'd expel.

Ayo: Awesome, and we've actually got one more, Orini's questions, shout out to Felix Shaw for this one, a student in the University of Auckland who has been doing a lot of ground work around Tourette's, which surprisingly isn't recognised as a legal disability in New Zealand. That, of course, impacts funding ORS support etc. If elected into power, will your party change that; yes, or no?

Priyanca: We started work on Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder, also not recognised in disabilities, and I'm happy to start that for two weeks as well.

Ricardo: It should happen, yes.

Cody: If there's evidence‑based for it, then we'd work towards it.

Orini: I know there was a petition that went around recently and I'm told that there were only a couple of parties that absolutely support recognition of Tourette’s as a disability and that is Te Pati Māori and Te Pati Kākāriki.

Olivia: Over to you Ayo for our final question.

Ayo: Final question, alright. You have 30 seconds. How would your party commit to ensuring disabled people thrive in Aotearoa? 30 seconds, let's start with you.

Priyanca: There's one policy that I didn't speak about tonight, and that is to work with the five key agencies that are in the disability strategy to produce EGL statements, impact statements, action plans and targets. Because I absolutely want government agencies to work together to ensure that their services are centred around the needs and the aspirations of disabled people. EGL is an approach that is community owned, but government has to come to the party.

Ricardo: We will ensure that everyone has access to what they need to live well; good housing, good incomes, and this will all be resourced through addressing our tax system and taxing the super rich. Enabling Good Lives talks about self‑determination, and I think that's one of the most powerful principles we need to uphold in legislation making. So none of the nonsense of requiring the Minister to consult with disabled people for Disability Support Services and then having no consequences that she doesn't do it. That needs to change.

Cody: We support EGL and we want to remove barriers for people with disabilities, right, we want you to have the same autonomy, same independence as everybody else and be able to contribute just as much. I think that's really important going forward.

Orini: We're very supportive of any measure that gives rise and effect to Te Tiriti o Waitangi. That's absolutely what it is, it's written in there, and that's the recognition of your mana motuhake, your tino rangatiratanga. It's not just applicable to hapū and iwi it's for all to recognise that's your sovereignty, determine how you see fit and tell us rather than us telling you.

Olivia: Kia ora everyone. So that wraps up our Disability Debate for this evening. We thank you, panellists, for joining us. Thank you to our audience, you've made it a lively debate. We've enjoyed your input and your questions. Thank you to the D*List and the team at Auckland University Disabled Students' Association. We will ‑‑ yeah, give everyone a round of applause. [Applause]

Something that we could all agree in this room and all the panellists would agree, is that we've got to enrol to vote. So we've got some information outside of this room, enrol by October 25th and, yeah, really, really important. So I'm just going to wrap up this evening with a karakia. Me inoi tātou. Tuia ki runga, tuia ki raro, tuia ki roto, tuia ki waho, tuia ki te here tangata. Ka rongo to po, ka rongo te ao. Haumi e, hui e, tāiki e. Thank you everyone. [Applause]